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Rickenbacker Forums->Setup And Technical->Byrds wiring
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Byrds wiring |
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Radioactive
Mackerel
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:50:00 PM
Does anyone know the model Switchcraft toggle switches, pot and capacitor values for the original Byrds wiring?
I'm not refering to the RM compressor model, I'd like to wire my guitar to the original wiring, from what I've been able to determine from the various forum info, it works with each individual pickup separately.
Ideally I'd like to build a separate pickguard with the wiring.
Posts: 43 Location: Carefree, AZ Registered: 10/20/2006 8:18:00 PM
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Invisible_Music
Shark
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Posted: 9/2/2009 1:32:00 AM
Wouldn't that be standard 370 or 360 wiring from that era? I would think it hasn't changed since then. Schematics are readily available on this site look here:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/service_g_schematics.asp
Posts: 326 Location: West Coast, USA Registered: 11/18/2005
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Zurdo
Orca
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Posted: 9/2/2009 2:39:00 AM
quote: Does anyone know the model Switchcraft toggle switches, pot and capacitor values for the original Byrds wiring? I'm not refering to the RM compressor model, I'd like to wire my guitar to the original wiring, from what I've been able to determine from the various forum info, it works with each individual pickup separately. Ideally I'd like to build a separate pickguard with the wiring.
assuming you are talking about a 3-pickup factory wiring in a 370-12, without the RM compressor, the factory wiring did not allow for individual pickup selection, the toggle switch came pre-wired for only 3 combinations:
1) neck pickup by itself,
2) neck pickup with center pickup,
3) bridge pickup by itself.
that's how mine was in 1967. So I was missing the other pickup combinations which I wanted to have:
4) bridge pickup with center pickup, (very vintage sound)
5) bridge pickup with neck pickup, (very bubblegummy sound)
6) all three pickups together, (very thick and bright)
7) center pickup by itself. (very midrangy sound).
Around 1972 I had a shop cut me a lower pickguard section and I drilled holes for three individual mini-switches, one for each pickup, and a master volume and master tone, (which I could have done without because I never adjust the volume or tone on the guitar itself, instead I use a Volume Pedal), but I guess I did it for tradition :-)).
Roger McGuinn used a 2-pickup 360-12 in The Byrds first two albums, (Mr. Tambourine Man and Turn Turn Turn), the 3-pickup 370-12 started in their third album, "My Back Pages" (I think), and it was fully exploited in their fourth album, "Mr. Spaceman". The 370-12 sounds very explosive in that 4th album, and the 3-pickup sound is simply, delicious.
Just like The Beatles were awed by Jimi Hendrix, they were awed by The Byrds, and I think they realized they could not copy The Byrds without sounding like The Byrds, so they retired their original 12-string Rickenbacker until Harrison got a FireGlo 360-12 like Roger McGuinn's and they used it in "If I Needed Someone". :-)) (just my wild theories).
So I think you are talking about a circuit mod offered by Popes here in the forum.
Zurdo
1966 370-12
Posts: 671 Location: Florida Registered: 6/4/2009 2:15:00 PM
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Clifton
Orca
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Posted: 9/2/2009 7:54:00 AM
Very interesting examples of original 370/12 Byrd models on the Rickenbacker Me Uk site.
http://www.rickenbacker.me.uk/www.rickenbacker.me.uk/Deluxe_Thin_Body_Series.html
Scroll down to see them--unusual double toggles instead of the usual 5 control knobs.
Posts: 641 Location: Texas Registered: 8/12/2005
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Radioactive
Mackerel
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Posted: 9/2/2009 9:40:00 AM
Thanks for the all the responses; The pictures I've seen of this wiring show 2 toggle switches, and 4 control knobs in a different configuration than the standard 370/12, more like the McGuinn Signature models of the late '80s.
Zurdo, thanks for the info on your guitar and it's modifications; I beleive I've seen a picture of it on the
RR forum. The mod I'm refering to, while somewhat limited, is a different one, no micro-switches, just the two toggles and four knobs.
Clifton...that link you provided has quite a few examples of the wiring I'm referring to, even has a model with a small micro-switch in between the two toggle switches. Thanks!!
Apparently one toggle switch produced three different tones, the other toggle switch was pickup selection, the
three lower knobs were volume, and the top knob was a master volume. It seems like a straigtforward soldering job providing you have a spare pickuguard with the right holes drilled, a few potentionmeters, caps and the toggle switches. One thread refers to a Switchcraft toggle switch that has 9 leaf contacts; I think that might be the 12015 model, which is seldom seen, and less available. Maybe there's a model that can be substituted.
Posts: 43 Location: Carefree, AZ Registered: 10/20/2006 8:18:00 PM
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rainmaker
Mackerel
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Posted: 9/16/2009 2:37:00 PM
I heard McGuinn several times, once with the fabled original 5 Byrds. He had the 2-pickup Fireglow 12, and played it through 2 Fender Super Reverbs. He was also using a Vox Treble Booster, and that guitar cut through everything. I imagine he used all kinds of combinations, but i only saw either Fender Supers or Twins, and the occassional Dual Showman. I think those Fender amps made all the difference in the world, just like the legendary Super Beatles by Vox...I'm just SAYIN'......
Posts: 11 Location: Georgia, USA Registered: 9/13/2009 8:35:00 PM
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Radioactive
Mackerel
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:32:00 PM
quote:I heard McGuinn several times, once with the fabled original 5 Byrds. He had the 2-pickup Fireglow 12, and played it through 2 Fender Super Reverbs. He was also using a Vox Treble Booster, and that guitar cut through everything. I imagine he used all kinds of combinations, but i only saw either Fender Supers or Twins, and the occassional Dual Showman. I think those Fender amps made all the difference in the world, just like the legendary Super Beatles by Vox...I'm just SAYIN'......
He's used a variety of different amps and always created his trademark sound, but I'm not looking for what amp he used, or outboarde effects. There were a number of Rickenbackers that came from the factory with Byrd wiring, and supposedly he (McGuinn) took it a step further and added a Vox Treble booster onto the guitar circuit.
I'm interested in the original Byrds wiring as well as any wiring that have incorported onboard effects, but not the compression cirsuit on the late '80s Signature model.
Posts: 43 Location: Carefree, AZ Registered: 10/20/2006 8:18:00 PM
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JohnHall
RIC CEO
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:36:00 PM
I don't believe Switchcraft makes a standard switch that works in this configuration, or at least they didn't back in the era. We purchased two different types of switches, took them apart and reassembled the various components to do what was necessary.
What I don't remember is whether this assembled switch was the pickup selector or the tone control, but I'll guess it was the selector, based on the contact complexity. I unearthed the original boxes for these several years ago when some questions came up about one of these guitars but I don't seem to be able to find them now.
We only built about 50 of these guitars- I used to have one of them- and McGuinn himself felt the circuit was limiting and returned to the stock configuration at one point.
Posts: 3174 Location: Santa Ana, CA Registered: 8/9/2005
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Radioactive
Mackerel
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:30:00 PM
Thanks Mr. Hall for your help.
From what I've read there were two Switchcraft 3 position toggles used in the Byrd wiring, a regular one and one that had 8 or 9 contact leaves, I think the odd one might be a Switchcraft # 12015, which is a custom order toggle switch. I've heard that some of the people that have done the Byrds wiring had to cannabilize parts and make their own special switch as you mention was done at the Rickenbacker factory.
I have two of the #12015 switches along with the other parts and that's why I'd like to go ahead and try this wiring, if I can find a schematic, diagram or picture.
I'm aware that it had certain limitations according to
Roger McGuinn, but that's okay.
Appreciate the assistance and interest.
Posts: 43 Location: Carefree, AZ Registered: 10/20/2006 8:18:00 PM
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lcs-18
Grouper
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Posted: 10/7/2009 5:38:00 AM
A newbie with a mystery related to this thread. In 1969 (I believe), I bought a used '66 360/12 in Fireglo which I've kept to this day. Someone in my bandmate's family owned a pawnshop where the guitar was for sale. I bought it sight unseen, and when it arrived, I saw that it was in very nice condition except for a hole drilled straight through both pickguards. Upon removing the pickguards, I found that there were was also a pair of small holes (~ 1/8th inch) drilled near the edge of the wiring cavity.
I was a little disappointed, but I got the guitar for a good price ($200!) and it played and sounded great. After reading this thread, I pulled the pickguard yesterday and found few other "anomalies" that are worth noting. First is that the pickup toggle switch is one of the multi-leaf types discussed as a "Byrd wiring" feature. The other is that the tone pots are split-shaft, unlike the solid shaft volume and blender pots.
Since the location of the pickguard hole is different than that on the original (modded) McGuinn guitar, and would interfere with strumming, I'm puzzled why anyone would have done this. Question, do any of these mods or features indicate factory mods? The caps and wiring look original, and all of the other components of the guitar are untouched. Naturally, I'd be excited to learn that I have an unusual guitar, but I fully expect to be told that it's been butchered by an idiot.
Posts: 1 Location: Pennsylvania Registered: 10/6/2009 7:05:00 PM
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Radioactive
Mackerel
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Posted: 10/7/2009 11:18:00 AM
I'd take some pics and post linke to them. I'm sure someone here can answer your question.
Posts: 43 Location: Carefree, AZ Registered: 10/20/2006 8:18:00 PM
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KennyHowes
Sales Manager
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Posted: 5/25/2010 9:38:00 AM
quote:We only built about 50 of these guitars- I used to have one of them- and McGuinn himself felt the circuit was limiting and returned to the stock configuration at one point. My 370/12 originally had the Byrd wiring as well. It sort of had the flexibility of Gretsch wiring, that is, limited to about 2.5 useful sounds. I rewired my guitar years ago to a standard 370 setup.
Posts: 389 Location: Santa Ana, CA Registered: 8/8/2005
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Zurdo
Orca
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Posted: 5/25/2010 12:56:00 PM
to modify my '66 370-12, i simply unsoldered the wires from the output jacks, (making notes as I went), removed the entire original pickguard/control assembly, and stored it safely in a padded shoebox :-))
then I started from scratch by having a new pickguard cut to shape (only the larger bottom part), drilled new holes on the new pickguard, and installed the new parts/controls purchased from CARVIN, soldering the new hot and ground wires to the non-rick-o-sound jack. (I never used Rick-O-Sound anyway).
that's it. I realize it's not the most "elegant" way to do the controls, but I wanted a separate on-off switch for each pickup to have all the possible combinations, and one master volume and tone control for all three, a very simple arrangement. When you're onstage you can't be messing with volume and tone controls. No time for that.
in other words I never mess with the guitar's volume or tone controls anyway, they're always at 10, if I need to reduce the volume, I use the volume Pedal.
I also want to say that I've had Gretsch guitars in the 1960's, one similar to George Harrison's but in Orange, (the Nashville model) and frankly I never understood the three control switches, I always confused myself with that guitar's controls. Not to mention the Master Volume it also had. I got rid of it though it was a very good playing guitar which stayed in tune and had a zero fret.
Zurdo
Posts: 671 Location: Florida Registered: 6/4/2009 2:15:00 PM
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mediclarry
Grouper
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Posted: 7/15/2010 8:24:00 AM
Man..can one of you guys with the 370/12 take a picture of the inside of your lower pickguard and post it here? I would love to wire my 370/12 I just got the complete wireing harness from Ric along with the ROS wireing..so I need to see what the inside looks like to copy..thanks in adavnce..mediclarry
Posts: 6 Location: United States Registered: 6/29/2010 11:48:00 AM
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iiipopes
Orca
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Posted: 7/16/2010 12:58:00 AM
Then again, there's always my mods to get more usable sounds out of a 370 with no hassle.
Posts: 2872 Location: Registered: 10/8/2006 4:07:00 PM
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Zurdo
Orca
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Posted: 7/16/2010 9:02:00 AM
quote:Man..can one of you guys with the 370/12 take a picture of the inside of your lower pickguard and post it here? I would love to wire my 370/12 I just got the complete wireing harness from Ric along with the ROS wireing..so I need to see what the inside looks like to copy..thanks in adavnce..mediclarry
I have my original 1966 370-12 main pickguard with all controls and wiring stored away in a shoebox. As soon as I find it I will get a picture, just don't know when because all my stuff is boxed in a storage unit.
Zurdo
Posts: 671 Location: Florida Registered: 6/4/2009 2:15:00 PM
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Zurdo
Orca
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Posted: 7/16/2010 9:04:00 AM
quote:Then again, there's always my mods to get more usable sounds out of a 370 with no hassle.
can you describe what it does or doesn't do? Yes I know you've described it a thousand times but I can't find it.
Zurdo
Posts: 671 Location: Florida Registered: 6/4/2009 2:15:00 PM
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iiipopes
Orca
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Posted: 7/20/2010 10:36:00 PM
quote:quote:Then again, there's always my mods to get more usable sounds out of a 370 with no hassle.
can you describe what it does or doesn't do? Yes I know you've described it a thousand times but I can't find it.
Zurdo http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum_view_thread.asp?thread_id=7928&forum=Setup_And_Technical&thread_name=iiipopes vintage tone mod
Posts: 2872 Location: Registered: 10/8/2006 4:07:00 PM
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Zurdo
Orca
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Posted: 7/21/2010 5:30:00 PM
the .047 cap explains the why, now I understand.
Posts: 671 Location: Florida Registered: 6/4/2009 2:15:00 PM
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